PIWI Grape Varieties

In our latest episode of the Dropyn Wine Chat, we’re briefly embracing the summer with a conversation about why chilled red wines deserve a place in your fridge. 

Then we move on to introduce one of our newest producers, Weingut Wohlgemuth-Schnürr from Germany, and explore the fascinating world of PIWI grape varieties – innovative, disease-resistant vines that are helping shape the future of sustainable winemaking. Whether you’re looking for your next refreshing red or curious about where wine is heading, there’s plenty to discover in this episode.

We also mention:

Charlie Herring English Wine

Dropyn – Gwin Dylanwad Wine Chat is recorded in our little wine shop in Dolgellau, North Wales. Join Dylan, Llinos and Osian as we chat about wines, winemakers and the stories behind the bottles.

🍷 Visit us at https://dylanwad.co.uk/ 

💬 We’d love your feedback and reviews to help us grow.  Diolch!

Transcript

Osian 0:08

Welcome to another episode of Drop yn with your hosts Osian Dylan and Llinos.

Llinos 0:13

Hello,

Osian 0:15

It's been a while since we've recorded one.

Llinos 0:17

We've been busy.

Osian 0:18

Yeah, it's been a busy few weeks. We've just had Sesiwn Fawr in Dolgellau, so it's a massive festival held in our town with , Welsh music everywhere.

Dylan 0:31

Yeah. Osian playing non-stop night after night. Keep the customers happy. It's still exploding. It's been a great time. It's hard to explain to people what a big thing it is for a small town. Town looks bigger than it is in a way. Two and a half, two thousand seven hundred people, probably ten thousand people over the weekend. And there's bands everywhere, there's music everywhere, there's entertainment for the kids.

Llinos 0:59

And and my highlight was seeing a Galithian bagpiper in the Marian. On his own. On his own happily playing his hands. Piping away. That was really good. Yeah. And such a nice atmosphere. Great weather.

Osian 1:15

We sold a lot of wine.

Llinos 1:16

We did so, yeah.

Dylan 1:18

What vessel was the wine in that we sold a lot of previous podcasts? We sold a lot of wine in cans. We did. Ideal. And cider.

Llinos 1:27

Yeah. But people were coming in and going, can we have what have we got in cans? Yeah. So I think that. Yeah. Very good. Um, but it was really successful. And the weather is steamingly hot. We have got wildfires to the north of here, actually, which is a bit worrying. Ten minutes away. Yeah, 10 minutes away. Yeah, yeah.

Osian 1:46

Thing is, you want a nice summer, but actually. Yeah, not scorching. No, it's literally scorching. It's just been a summer I remember.

Dylan 1:56

And no rain for at least two weeks now. Yeah. And none until next week, possibly. Yeah. So there we are.

Llinos 2:02

And we have been swimming a lot. Yeah. We have our French friend Condice with us. So it's been interesting because we decided to swim in a different place every time. So we just went to the city. Every day we've gone to a different pools, rivers.

Dylan 2:17

The sea.

Llinos 2:17

Makes you do things, doesn't it? Yeah.

Dylan 2:19

Wonderful. Thank you, Condice. Taking us out and about, making us do it.

Llinos 2:25

I don't think we've swum so much.

Dylan 2:27

No, no, no.

Llinos 2:28

In in a whole summer, to be honest. Normally we might go once or twice. T novia. T Mindovia. Are you going to swim in the sea and things now?

Osian 2:36

Not really, but I have been this year. Yeah, yeah, because. I think after finishing work in Delanwad at like eight o'clock, just go to Dulcera.

Llinos 2:47

A dip. Oh, the pool in Dulcera. We haven't been there yet.

Dylan 2:50

Even the rivers are warm. I mean, you think they'll always be freezing.

Llinos 2:54

No, no.

Dylan 2:55

They come over the rocks in the sun and clambering over the stones.

Llinos 2:59

The water's a bit low in the gantloid one. So yeah, it was a but it was lovely.

Osian 3:05

And you had to check on the warehouse as well, just check that it's cold enough.

Dylan 3:08

Yeah, I've been going down at night to get the fans on and the windows open to cool, keep it cool.

Llinos 3:14

It is a bit scary weather, isn't it? For wine.

Dylan 3:18

Wine temperature. You don't need to be too precious, but you really don't want your bottles of wine going up and down in temperature getting too hot and then too cold as well. So it's about keeping them moderate. I mean, ideally, your cellar is 10 to 12 degrees, and that's just perfect. But you know, they're not going to be ruined straight away if it goes a bit above that or below. But you don't want it swinging around. All the people that keep their bottle of champagne in their kitchen for 20 years that they had for their wedding and then it's gonna be a dud. Yeah. Sadly. Sorry, sorry, Daytona.

Llinos 3:54

Very sorry to inform you. But yeah, which leads us on nicely too. We we're going to talk about two things, aren't we? We're the chilled red wine thing, and then we're going to go on to pee we grape varieties. I'm not telling you any more about that at the moment. Keep you hanging on.

Dylan 4:14

Yeah. But chilled chilled reds, it's everywhere. There's articles everywhere. I mean, it's the heat. And um it works. You know, not for all red wines, I would say. One of the wines I've selected for tonight, uh I was thinking about putting it in the fridge for a little while, but the red is it's a bit too big, and it's a bit probably a bit of tannin, and it's been in Barik, and it's not the sort of red I'm thinking of chilling.

Llinos 4:41

But you read an article that said all wines, all red wines chilled, didn't you? A while ago. Yeah. Or have I dreamt it?

Dylan 4:49

Yeah, but I it's also one man's chill is another man's freezer. I don't know. You know, an hour in the fridge, something like that. But I'm normally thinking of lighter reds um with low tannins to chill for the summer. You know, that's what you're looking for a cooler drink. It's it's hot out there. Uh and and also we're eating a lot of salads, we're not eating big meaty meals, um, and a light fruity red. I mean, traditionally.

Llinos 5:18

We chilled the Valpol, didn't we, the other night? We chilled Valpole, something like many flavours.

Dylan 5:22

Yeah, and even lighter than Valpol, Bardolino from Lake Garda, something like that, gamet, beaujolais, uh, wines like that, Cabernet Franc, even, you know, a little chill. Don't chill it right down to eight degrees, but you know, get it down to ten, twelve degrees, and um I mean if it's too cold, it soon warms up. It's it's you can't go the other way.

Llinos 5:45

Would you would you drink a child?

Osian 5:47

I've heard just yeah, put it in the fridge half an hour before even any red, because you know, room temperature is god knows what these days. Twenty twenty five. Yeah, I don't know.

Dylan 6:00

Yeah, I mean that's the the flip side, not about chilling them even. You don't want to drink your red wine at twenty-five or twenty-five.

Osian 6:06

Because I've been to a few bars and restaurants, and the wine, the red wine is just too warm. And then I think I remember he was giving me tasters of different red wines, but they all tasted the same because they were just because when a w red wine is warm, you just taste the alcohol, don't you? Yeah. And then a bit soupy or soapy and lowers the tannins, I think. So when you do chill it, so if you've got a full-bodied red and you put it in the fridge, the tannins are gonna be more pronounced. But then the aromatics are pronounced. But then when you when it's warm, everything just it's just hot and it tastes it is it's not very nice.

Llinos 6:47

Like you say, it does become soapy, doesn't it?

Osian 6:49

And it is worth tastes alcoholic, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Llinos 6:52

And when they say room temperature, we we say this over and over, don't we? We have to remember that room temperature was not the room temperature we have now a long time ago. And it's the same as the fridge, isn't it? When you say chilling a wine, extreme temperatures aren't great, are they? Our fridge is maybe four or five degrees, that's too cold for most wines.

Osian 7:14

Because the ones we've got behind our bar for the red wine is 18 degrees, isn't it? Yeah, and even when you open it now to pour a wine, it does feel cold.

Dylan 7:23

Yeah, yeah, you know, you know, it's you feel the bottle and it does feel cold. 20 to 25 degrees in the bar, isn't it? So that would be too warm, but yeah, nice at 18. And and the you know, that is the danger with going away from chilled reds is over chilled whites. You know, like you say, your fridge at home should be five degrees or less. Pull the bottle out, it's freezing cold. You don't get the aromatics, it's you get you don't get anything from it. Let it warm up a bit, take it out, get it up to 10 degrees, spin it round your glass, and you'll get so much more out of it.

Llinos 7:56

Yeah. And don't don't put your red wine in the microwave or on top of your wood burner or anything like that, because that it does mess around with the molecules, doesn't it?

Dylan 8:08

I'm so once it starts bubbling, you know you're in trouble. Yeah.

Osian 8:13

Because I think some white wines, when you do all reds, when you do chill them to certain levels, is it the tartrate crystals?

Speaker 2 8:21

Do they write down low?

Dylan 8:23

I mean, they're a commercial wine, you know, that's why they've got ridden of that. Yeah. Tartrate crystals. Sometimes you will see that in a bottle of white wine, little bits sometimes people go, Oh, there's bits of glass in the bottle of the bottle, little crystals in the bottom, which is your tartrate crystals. They naturally naturally precipitate out as the temperature gets cool and with time. So, in a big production line, they'll chill the wine down in the tanks. It the tartrates will be precipitated out, and then they're gonna bottle. But you know, a good winemaker is thinking, I'm losing something by almost freezing that wine. Yeah, that's not gonna be good for the wine I've spent so long creating. Um, so if you you know, but with time they will naturally settle out. Don't worry about them, sit in the bottom of the bottle, and they're not gonna do anything.

Osian 9:13

There's another cool name for them, isn't it? Wine diamonds. Well, yeah, it makes it sound much more attractive. They're actually just wine diamonds. Wine diamonds. Don't worry.

Llinos 9:24

We always make staff chew them a bit, don't we? Chomp on them just to say they are safe, there's nothing wrong with them. And it is like it is that little sort of soury, yeah, on the end of your tongue. They're not unpleasant. They're they're in red as well, are they?

Osian 9:38

Sometimes to be fair, I haven't tried a lot of chilled reds. No. I think I've sold a few wines and say you can chill this if you want. Yeah, yeah. But I've never sort of tried it properly.

Dylan 9:50

It's a bit uh gonna go down that road a bit more. Keep it on tap for us in the bar, you know. Like I say, if you put it in the fridge, it's gonna be too cold. But we could we've got the the the sort of poshwine fridge, and I think we should have a red in there which is set 10-12 degrees. Uh so we'll we'll do that this month. Next month, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, yeah, that's that'll be perfect.

Llinos 10:11

Yeah, not too much.

Dylan 10:12

So yeah.

Llinos 10:13

Good. Well, let's let's move on to another exciting. We've had an exciting delivery, haven't we? Oh, very exciting. Because um uh we haven't imported from Germany before, have we? Nope. Importing is a is quite a sort of complicated thing in a way. It sounds simple, but it I don't know.

Dylan 10:31

I I feel it's it's taken a time it's taken some time.

Llinos 10:35

Yeah.

Dylan 10:35

And I to be to be perfectly frank, I wouldn't have thought of importing from Germany because we don't do the volumes on German wine. It's hard to get people to drink German wine in a way. Um and it's it's it's thanks to some lovely customers that we've not long encountered who uh wanted to get hold of their favourite German wines from their favourite German family that they've known for 20 or 30 years, and they always drive over and load up and bring boxes home, and now you can't do that anymore. And they've tried to get it shipped and it's been turned round at the port because of the paperwork.

Llinos 11:16

No, I didn't know that.

Dylan 11:18

Yeah, yeah, they've tried. Um, so they just said, Oh, you import wine, don't you? You know, couldn't you get some wine for us? And and I was thinking, well, yeah, we can't.

Llinos 11:28

Before anybody gets any ideas, okay, we can't do this for everybody. No.

Dylan 11:34

No, no, but uh the if you're willing to split a a full palette, then we're probably in business here. So they they have had us you know a considerable amount of wine, but it gave us the chance to go and visit this winery. I mean, this is the bit that people always imagine you're always doing as you're uh in the wine trade. So it was just a one overnight trip uh flying into Frankfurt Hahn, which is I love it, is a tiny airport, nowhere near Frankfurt, but quite very near the Moselle, Mosul, but um uh an hour's drive, hour and a quarter to Rhinhessen to visit the winery and taste some of their wines. And then it turned out they're an interesting bunch, they're an interesting family who I was just looking it up, a nice little quote Pee-Wee pioneers from Rhinehessen.

Llinos 12:33

So pee we pioneers we need to explain peewee. Yeah, yeah. So almost so it sounds like a seabird or something, yeah.

Dylan 12:42

Not a pee-wit.

Llinos 12:43

Not a peewee, no.

Dylan 12:44

Um so peewee varietals, these are the new crosses that uh being uh being produced, if you like. Grape varieties uh that are specifically bred hybrids to be um disease resistant or and early ripening. Um they need less inputs. Uh, and this particular family have have gone for it big time. They have lots. It would it's lovely tasting wine, you know. You're there for a few hours with a family that's absolutely lovely, but they have such a range of wines to then cut it down to, you know, we can't take so many as that, the few that we wanted. But these varieties, I hadn't realized peewe, it's a German word that everyone had a bash at before we started recording. Anyone want to have another bash at Pilzweider stands for Hij Rebut Sohen, which means um fungus resistant great variety in German. Um they're being produced uh by crossing, they're all it's all natural, it's not like it's any, you know.

Osian 13:56

It sounds kind of like you're mutating something or you're very a laboratory.

Dylan 14:03

Yeah, like yeah, but it's not, it's not, you know, the And it's not genetically modified. It's not genetically modified, that was what I was looking for. But you're taking vitis vinifera is the strain of a vine, European vine that we're used to, that is Chardonnays, Sauvignon, is all the rest. Crossing it with American and Asian grape varieties uh to produce this disease-resistant uh variety. So you've got things like vitis labruska, vitis riparia, vitis amourensis, I think that's a Russian one, uh, vitis rupestis. Sorry for all the all the plants men out there that think I'm an absolute idiot. But they're different um vitis cross with them that will give these these different properties that means I mean we can produce in Wales better because of these new crosses. Solaris, uh rondo, regent, uh Phoenix, these are all peewee varietals that uh for us they ripen early, they're disease resistant because we're damp and humid, but also in other regions, traditional regions they are they're having more humidity, they're gonna get more molds. And what you have to do is spray, spray, spray, in the words of Mr. Trump. Um, you know, what we're trying not to do here. I think if I remember from uh uh Schneer from their website, they need 80% less treatments for the vines.

Speaker 3 15:38

That's amazing.

Dylan 15:39

So that's less fuel, if nothing else. Driving tractors, spray, spray, spray. Um, you're not compacting the soil. That's a good thing in the vineyard. There's lots of water. Less uh less water, less irrigation is what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um so that's what we're looking at tonight of these new varieties. So, like I say, in Wales, uh we've become used to Solaris, is is one, uh, and Rhonda and and Regent, these are the varieties that are that are meaning that we're producing great wine in Wales. Yeah. Whereas Sauvignon is not our work in Wales, not yet. Or Chardonnay, you know, straight um Cabinet is not. Um so what we're gonna look at is uh Does that mean we're having a drink now? I think we better had.

Llinos 16:27

So pass the wine.

Dylan 16:30

Start with scratching over. Uh you you notice the names are always just sound a little bit like what you think it might be. Uh Savignac, Trocken 2024. So if you would do the honours trocken meaning dry.

Osian 16:45

So when you do look at a bottle of wine in, I think Germany and Austria.

Llinos 16:50

Oh, and Austria.

Osian 16:51

When it does say trocken on the bottle, it does mean dry.

Llinos 16:54

Dry, yeah, that's a good bit of information. It's got a beautiful little shell on the bottom. Yeah, the labels are really nice. They're really good, aren't they?

Osian 17:00

So, do you know like you're crossing Vitis finifera with the American Because I think, say for instance, the American species, or they don't taste very good, do they?

Dylan 17:11

They can be, well, they always, when you study, I mean, sorry, this goes back too far for me 25 years since I studied this sort of stuff, but they always used to say, Oh, they taste a bit foxy. And you sort of think, what does foxy mean? But when you've tasted an American varietal like that, you know what it means. A little bit like, I don't know, stale bubblegum or something, you know, it's uh it's it's very different. Um so what they've managed to do is not have any of that foxiness, but retain the sort of aromatics from the original sort of grapes that are in the cross. So you know, Sauvignac sounds like it might be Sauvignon. So there is Sauvignon Blanc in the in the cross. Okay, there's some Riesling in the cross, and some of these resistant partners. So they've been working in this one comes out of uh of Switzerland. Uh Valentine Blattner uh created it. Um it's resistant to downy mildew, it's to powdery mildew, it's resistant to botrytis. Um so you know it hit it ticks a lot of boxes. So it's quite golden in colour.

Llinos 18:24

It is, isn't it?

Dylan 18:25

Yeah, yeah, it's got some colour there.

Llinos 18:28

Is that because of the Riesling cross, maybe? I don't know.

Dylan 18:31

Possibly. Nice nose. Aromatic, herbaceous. Um is there a bit of Riesling there? Oh, now I've said it, you know, I'm picking up a hint of lime and I'm picking up some grassiness from the Sauvignon. Yeah.

Llinos 18:44

So these are practically really good for that they're efficient and money-saving, aren't they? You know, for any winemaker as well. Because like you say, even if you're organic, you're using copper sulfate on your vineyard.

Dylan 18:56

I mean, the last trip I had to Bordeaux, I don't know, two years ago, and it was a bit of well, say it's a summer like this. It was hot, but it was damp and it was humid. And we were lucky enough to stay in this wonderful chateau. Every morning when I went out walking, they were out there spraying in the vineyards copper sulfate, you know, day after day, just having to repeat because it gets washed off in a bit of rain, and then you need to do it again. So this is cutting that down 80%. So you know, it for the it's it's about the environment, guys. You know, we're we're growing these crops, you know, and we need to use less inputs. So they've managed to produce, I think, something you wouldn't say it was Sauvignon Blanc, maybe, but it's an interesting little oiliness there. Yeah, there's no oak in there, is it?

Llinos 19:46

Why are you thinking it's a bit buttery? Yeah. It's lovely. Excellent length.

Dylan 19:57

I might even read out then there some notes I've had for the great variety. Characterist uh characterized by Riesling aromas with apricot and ripe apple, a bouquet of lime, and subtle black currant of sh sugareba. I wish I hadn't started that. Stable acidity uh that keeps it lively during bottle aging. Can be grown on different sites. Um I mean, all these wines I I have to confess I haven't even priced these wines up. They've just literally arrived last week. Um, so we haven't got them on our shelves yet.

Llinos 20:37

11.5% volume.

Dylan 20:38

Eleven and a half. That's another plus. Yeah, that's a plus. Um the plus on on the the price, because that will be a lower duty price for being a lower alcohol. Nice. There's a difference in duty now. Every half a percent, the duty rate goes up. Um they the wines were going to taste uh uh between £12.15 and £15 on the shelf, I would say. Something like that. Don't hold me to it when you come in the shop and find them at some different price with around that price. So, you know, a good alternative to a Sauvignon, to a Riesling, to a crisp dry wine, even a Shenon, you know, with a bit of body to it. It's not throwaway light, you know.

Llinos 21:23

So we had Pee-Wee, a Pee Wee variety from Pelange years ago, didn't we call Bronna that they were experimenting with? And that was meant to be, you know, use less water, disease resistant, but they haven't come back with it, and we should be looking into that maybe. I don't know where they're so that that's quite a while ago. Um, so this is a developing idea that's really coming to the forefront now, isn't it?

Dylan 21:46

Yeah, I mean I've I've I've literally this afternoon open opened the the cases for the first time to grab these samples for tonight, and um I've sent off a bottle of the Saugnac to the Wonderful Charlie Herring, or otherwise known as Tim Phillipsdown in the New Forest.

Llinos 22:06

He used to make his Charlie Herring wine in South Africa, didn't he? Very interesting character.

Dylan 22:12

Yeah, fascinating guy. I just seen a little uh post he'd put up Instagram or something, he's got Sauvignac vines, so uh I've sent down a bottle for him to try.

Speaker 2 22:23

Wow.

Dylan 22:23

You know, it's like all our new vineyards in Wales, you know, it takes time to know how they're gonna turn out, you know. So it's it it's it's a bit of a long process. Yeah, and people will try this Schneer from Rheinhessen, and next door in you know, somewhere in Germany, they go, Yeah, that works for me, that works for me. Um I'll plant some of that instead of more.

Llinos 22:45

So it's gonna take time, isn't it? Because nobody's gonna go grubbing up loads of well, I don't know if they think it's good and it's going to be of financial and quality um benefit. Yeah. They might they might well, I don't know.

Dylan 23:00

But it's a it's a big decision and and it takes time to see how how how the vines develop and how how the wine turns out. But these guys are in early and they've they've done a great job there, I think. Yeah.

Llinos 23:12

Yeah. So Schnur is the vineyard. Is it in Trinessen?

Dylan 23:16

It's in Rheinhessen. Rheinhessen. Looking for his notes. Gundersheim.

Speaker 3 23:23

So how many acres, pectas do you know? Are they big? I mean they must be.

Dylan 23:31

But honestly, they have twenty, thirty more couvees. Um I mean what's lovely, like so many of our producers, you know, it it it's a real family affair. Uh the parents and two sons, uh Benedict, I think, is the guy that's driving a lot of of these new varieties he's putting in. He's the winemaker, and um yeah, you know, but they've got so many different uh couvets, and I'm sure he's trying to see what works, you know, and using a bit of oak here and there. And does that work with these varieties?

Llinos 24:07

My watch is pinging, sorry. I hope you can't hear it.

Dylan 24:11

I'll let that one slide, Tim.

Llinos 24:12

Thanks. So we've got number two there, have we? This pee-wee variety thing though, I think it's it's great, but you know, could we've been talking about grafting before? Um would you you know if you've got some Sauvignon and you're thinking, do you know what? I'm on in Bordeaux, they wouldn't be allowed there, probably, but and I want to change my Sauvignon, it's not doing very well. Would you be able to graph this Pee-Wee onto? I'm asking you a question. No, no, no. I'm not a plant. You don't know, do you?

Osian 24:54

Wouldn't that just create wouldn't that Pee-Wee just grow on that rank?

Llinos 24:58

Yeah, it would. So the the rootstock is what's important to you.

Dylan 25:01

Yeah, rootstock, you know, there's lots of sorry to get techie again, but rootstock and you know, most vines are American. No, you're talking the top of the plant, which I should know the name of, but your rootstock can be the same. So you probably can.

Llinos 25:17

Okay.

Dylan 25:18

Oh this nose is nice. So yeah. So next one. As I say, the names are in give you a hint sometimes of what's in the mix. I like that. Uh this is Mooscaris Feinge 2025 Fun Schnu. Um so Muscaris.

Llinos 25:37

Muscatan Solaris.

Dylan 25:39

What?

Llinos 25:40

No, I'm just guessing.

Dylan 25:42

Not far off. Oh I'm desperately looking for my notes.

Llinos 25:46

Didn't take a brain surgeon really to work that one out of it. Um well it's I'm a bit overexcited about having a drink in peace and quiet, and it's not sort of the stress of the weekend. So forgive me if I'm getting a little bit. That's all right.

Speaker 2 26:06

I'll moderate myself. Oh no.

Dylan 26:09

Well that'd be a design now. Oh, the bit of meat with my wine. I'm happy with that.

Llinos 26:15

Oh, have you tasted that?

Dylan 26:17

Yeah.

Llinos 26:18

Pretty well.

Dylan 26:19

So tasty.

Llinos 26:21

I really like that.

Dylan 26:28

I'm so what did you say? She she's she's getting quite good at this game. Yeah. She said muscat and solaris. Okay, so um this one comes out of Germany, the State Viticultural Institute in Freiburg, and there's a cross between Solaris, which is another peeweaver artal, which is we have a lot in Wales, and Gelba Muscatella, or Muscat Blanc et Petit Grand, um, to give the aromatics there. You get a real waft of muscat on the nose.

Llinos 27:02

Oh, it's wonderful.

Dylan 27:03

But it's got the disease resistant, um, you know, highly resistant to fungal diseases such as odium and pernospora, making it suitable for viticulture in different regions. So cooler regions, Switzerland, the Netherlands, the UK.

Llinos 27:23

These are the areas that we need to be pairing, you know, it's pretty pointless as thinking about Shiraz, isn't it, in Wales? Yeah. Well, uh well, I don't know, the last few weeks maybe not, but um but on the whole, it isn't, is it? You know, there there's so it is the the sort of northern Switzerland and all of those. That they're the ones we need to be looking towards, isn't it?

Osian 27:45

Yeah. Because you're not going to get consistent sun like this. No. So a grape like Shiraz, yeah, it it's really sunny now, but actually you want the sun, you know, in September, yeah, and right through. Because the the skin is so thick, yeah, you know, for it to ripen properly in the stalk and like cabinet's overion as well, isn't it? Like you need that long, really hot. So if it does rain.

Llinos 28:07

When you think about in the Rhone Valley where Shiraz, they have those great big stones, the galettes, and they they like those because they reflect the heat even in that baking place, anyway. And south facing, is it? And south facing. So if they need that extra boost, yeah, just grow something different in it. Pretty stuffed here, aren't we? If we're gonna yeah, we're not gonna grow. Yeah. But it is good to have something different. How do because it was all it was promoted as being um yeah, disease resistant, but what about less water? Is that because so he's shaking his head and he's looking pain pained here because I've asked a couple of things.

Osian 28:47

The thing is, the European vineyards, they they're not allowed to irrigate anyway, are they?

Llinos 28:51

Not unless it's exceptional conditions, yeah. And for young age. They have to have permission, I think, and yeah, and that doesn't come easy.

Osian 29:01

Yeah. So as you are you thinking about the actual vine itself, how much water it takes in compared to other vites phenomenon.

Dylan 29:09

I mean I think less water, but spraying, you know, we're not gonna spray so often. Spraying is water with copper sulfate, you know. Absolutely. So you're immediately lessening your your you know, whatever. Lessening fuel, lessening everything, yeah. You know, it's it it is, you know, it's a good thing.

Llinos 29:27

Does this mean that drinking wine is actually gonna be good for the planet?

Dylan 29:30

Yeah, nah.

Osian 29:32

I don't think I'll say that. It's never gonna be good for the planet.

Dylan 29:35

No, so yeah, this is a good example. Muscarish, you know, it's highly aromatic. Notes of I'm read I'm reading these, not like this is my wonderful instant uh tasting note, but uh notes of muscat, citrus, elderflower, rose petals, grapefruit, ripe stone fruit. You get the rose petals, yep, yeah, fresh herbs, vibrant, refreshing, but obviously has so crisp acidity, moderate tannins, occasional residual sweetness, high um the high acidity makes it uh suitable for making sparkling wine as well. But you can tell in this got good acidity, but I have to the first one was 11 and a half, this is 13.5%. It doesn't, I I don't feel it. The acidity is still good despite having that high alcohol.

Llinos 30:22

I'm going to eat a nice prawn curry with this creamy, creamy, prawn curry. That's not what we've got tonight.

Speaker 2 30:30

No, I was gonna say, not as we're recording, I don't want to use Lovrino with a micro.

Llinos 30:35

That would be lovely with it. Spite sweetness to it, surely.

Osian 30:38

Because yeah, dry muscat is very interesting. Yeah, because when I was in Alsace, I had a because they do a lot of being to Alsace recently. I had a dry muscat Grand Cru. And it tastes similar to this, actually. Yeah. Wow.

Dylan 30:53

Yeah, that's yeah, that's the muscat in there. Um, yeah, just because I'm looking through this list of different pee-wee varietals, and notice at the bottom you were talking about trialing them in different places, even in you know, changing conditions, even in champagne. Vultis is a white uh variety, multi-resistant, approved for champagne trials.

Osian 31:19

Really?

Dylan 31:19

Yeah, wow.

Llinos 31:20

So you know I was just about to say when you started talking that well, do you think they'd allow another grape in champagne?

Dylan 31:27

Yeah. Wow. I mean, every you know, everybody's got to look at these things now.

Llinos 31:32

Um I've probably said it before on this podcast, I don't on one of our podcasts, but Bordeaux is allowing different varieties um from Portugal and Spain now. Tempero they're trialling for sure. In order to combat climate change.

Osian 31:48

What's it called? Is it Tinteroritz? No, what's the what's the oh yeah, the Torriga Nacional Nacional is Tempero? I don't remember Tinteroritz, I think is Temperanio, but Torriga Nacional, I think, is you know, these are varieties uh uh a used to extra heat that Bordeaux is getting.

Llinos 32:07

I'm on the red down here, I'm just having my own little party.

Osian 32:12

Because I I I was watching um Konstantin Baum, he's a master of wine and he's got a YouTube channel. Um I think he was trying some PV varietals and he tried a Solaris from Norway. Yeah, yeah.

Llinos 32:26

From Norway? Oh my goodness made I have never heard of wine. Some who said that was it you who said this um somebody was drinking wine from oh no, you've had some wines from Poland. Yeah, yeah, I haven't tried wines, no, but you know, wow, that's pretty northerly as well. I wouldn't have been thinking about vines in but Norway, I mean that is going so much for yeah, I mean it's a herring, yeah.

Dylan 32:56

The other the other thing they can sort of cross into it is this early ripening, you know. So that's why Solaris is working so well in Wales. Yeah, you know, they ripen early, i.e., it they will ripen in our season, and that will be the same in Norway. It's not that they don't have you know a good summer and plenty of sunshine, but it's a shorter, shorter season. Longer days, which takes us on.

Llinos 33:22

Oh, do you want the red?

Dylan 33:24

Is it chilled?

Llinos 33:25

Is it chilled? It's not chilled. Oh, he went again. I did put it, it's not, but you feel that it's not warm, is it? No.

Osian 33:33

That's but Will and oh the alcohol, yeah. Yeah, you don't need to chill this one that much.

Dylan 33:39

So uh the last wine of um Schnur from the wonderful Schnurr winery in Rheinhessen is from the Cabertine grape variety, bred in 1991 by Swiss breeder Valentin Blattner. Uh it's it's a bit of a holy grail, and it is in Wales as well. Reds is it? I feel a sorry, yeah, a little bit more difficult to get some body into them. We've got Rondo, we've got Regent's got a bit more, but they tend to be light, fruity, nice fruit on the nose, um, but lack a bit of body to them. So um that's what we're sort of looking for, but for cooler in in cooler areas. So it is cabotine, once again, a name that suggests maybe something to do with Cabernet Sauvignon. Oh, well done.

Llinos 34:35

Crossed with and I can't think of a tip.

Dylan 34:39

That'll do resistant partners, but going back to the ripening times, uh ripens about 10 to 14 days before Cabernet Sauvignon, um, which doesn't perhaps sound a lot two weeks, but that can make all the difference in a sort of marginal climate. Um resistant to frost as well, so that's not a problem. Um yeah, high resistance to downy mildew, powdery miljuw, botrytis, um very firm skin. Again, that's about the um uh yeah, not taking botrytis in. And it's aging oak.

Osian 35:22

Varique.

Dylan 35:25

So a dark, dark colour, fair bit of tan in there. Sounds like a cabernet, doesn't it?

Llinos 35:32

Yeah. So a cabernet, actually.

Dylan 35:36

I was going to say, and then I looked at these notes, but I get a bit of pepperiness there, a bit like you'd get in a um uh a cooler Shiraz. Um on the nose it shows clear fryazines, paprika pepper, as well as mocha, espresso beans, and aromatic cigar. The tannic structure is aromatic cigar.

Llinos 36:00

I think the cigar bit I really get.

Dylan 36:02

Yeah. Tannic structure is very strong. And I yeah, yeah. You know, we're not gonna say this is a uh knock it back easy wine. This is one that you're I might nothing holds you back. I think uh you might need uh you know, a bit of bratburst with it or whatever. It's a big one, yes. Yeah, and I'm quite glad I didn't chill it because I think that would extensuate these tannins. But it's got lovely fruit, it has got that pepperiness, it's got a nice aromatic nose. I I really think it's got that sort of pepperiness and a little bit of herbs on the nose.

Llinos 36:45

So, you know, you're really you know, with your as the younger member member of our podcast team, you know, your your priorities sort of go towards the natural wine and uh but also sustainability, I imagine, isn't it? That's pretty important for yeah. I mean it's important to me, but I think I'm generalizing a bit, but the younger generation are a bit more concerned about these things, aren't they, on the whole? Yeah.

Osian 37:15

And I think I just like variation and yeah, something new. Yeah, I think I'm just I don't drink a lot of Cabernet Sauvignon, straight Cabernet. I think I just get bored of it.

Dylan 37:26

Yeah. So when it's and uh you know, cab Cabernet is you know, is a tannic variety, so if you like your ta your your cabernet, I think cabotin? Cabertin's. Do we know what it's crossed for?

Llinos 37:40

No? No, do we know what it is?

Dylan 37:43

It could be sort of it'll be the the other vitus to give you your disease resistance.

Llinos 37:49

Okay then, right.

Dylan 37:50

I mean they're quite complicated, these crosses. They work their way through cross with cross with cross. I mean they're I was talking about lemons the other day, and I'm not sure it's quite the right uh descriptive, but I said they're very promiscuous. An eyebrow was raised. Citrus, they cross very easily between one species and another.

Llinos 38:13

In 17th century not a sense of doll these days.

Dylan 38:17

Italy people would uh like to display their collection of different citrus fruit in their you know, palazzo or whatever. But I think vines as well, you know, and if you help them along the way, yeah, uh, you know, of all the varieties. I mean, it does bring me back. I mean, I've given talks about wine for 20 plus years, and I tend to end up with the variety that you know the difference between all the wines is the climate, the soil, the weather, blah blah. And the last one is the variety, not like apples in co-op, you know, six varieties. There's a thousand varieties that make wine. Following our recent trip to Georgia, just learn there's another 500 in Georgia, which is quite a whack to address.

Llinos 39:04

I haven't heard of most any of them actually, yeah.

Dylan 39:06

And now, you know, we've got these new crosses, but they're you know, naturally over. I mean, Georgia goes about 8,000 years, um, they cross naturally, you know, and that's why we have a thousand varieties naturally, and all they're doing here, in a way, I assume, is helping it along its way, you know, to get a bit of a problem.

Llinos 39:27

This is very very heartening, isn't it, when you've got this kind of stuff coming along. Um, it's a little bit like an article I was reading a while ago. I sent it to our friends in France who grow potatoes and onions. It was talking about, you know, not so much varietals there, but also with AI and all these sensors that you can get, and um that they have sensors in their fields and it will tell you this bit needs water, this bit needs so they it really limits where you have to put your um where you water, where you have to put your um pesticides if you are or if you're organic, you know, whatever you use. So it's it's very heartening to see all of this stuff's going on in the background and we know nothing of it.

Osian 40:13

I think because we've bombarded with um these big companies.

Llinos 40:16

Yeah.

Osian 40:16

I d I've just done a tasting in work today. There's a couple I did tasting for. Yeah, um, so I did three white wines and three reds, and one of the whites was uh the Gruna Vellina.

Llinos 40:28

Oh yeah.

Osian 40:29

Um because the woman she likes um Sauvignon, New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. Yeah. And I was like, okay. Okay, there's the challenge. Yeah. And she loved the Gruna, yeah. Yeah, and she'd never had Austrian wine before. And she said she was in a white wine rut.

Speaker 2 40:45

Yeah, white wine.

Osian 40:46

How's it getting out of a white wine rut? Oh shit, I'm in a white wine rut. I love that. Gruna villain.

Llinos 40:52

Most people are. You find yourself getting into that.

Osian 40:55

Yeah, and then she said, I'm gonna go to the supermarkets and find some Austrian wines. And I was like, Yes.

Llinos 41:01

Absolutely great, well done. Good luck, sleep well tonight. Yeah, that's it. You're done, your work is done here, and it's just that's that's the great pleasure, isn't it? I mean, it can sound frivolous, but you know, tasting wine and everything. But that's the great thing is getting to something that somebody appreciates, saying there's more out there than Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay, or great as they can be.

Dylan 41:27

Or if you like that, yeah, but try something different.

Llinos 41:29

Try something different. Live a little.

Dylan 41:32

Yeah. We can as a as our strap line, can you?

Llinos 41:37

Yeah, live a little. Oh shit. Come to the linewell and live a little. Yeah, live a little. That's what's great. You do that a lot, actually. You're a lot better than I am, because you you really do introduce people to new things and you're you're good at talking about it.

Osian 41:50

I think the the supermarkets do that. Like MS, they've got the was it the found range or something? Founder range, uh that's good. And they're introducing like obscure grape varieties.

Llinos 42:01

Yeah, you see I had a zebibo from Libble Libble. Oops. Too much up. Is it time to go? Is it time to go? Um Little Little. Um the the middle a little. Uh yeah, and I'd I'd that was a fantastic Zibibo, you know, it's not Which is a muscat, isn't it? Which is Sicilian is is it the other name for muscat, isn't it?

Dylan 42:25

Yeah, there we are. A little bit of education for us all.

Llinos 42:28

Very good. Cool. Well, that's fantastic. Well, that's great. Dilfumarian pal. Thank you for listening to us again. We have had one or two requests because we there was a bit of a lag, and um because we're we're a little bit new to all of this, but yeah, we're getting back into the swing of it again now. That's it. We will be. Dilfumarian, we'll be back very soon. Thank you.

Dylan 42:53

Try a few different drinking.