Montgomery Vineyard - Wine from Wales

Welcome to another exciting episode of our podcast, where your hosts Dylan and Osian sit down with Woody from Montgomery Vineyard for an engaging exploration of winemaking in Wales. 

We have been buying from Woody for years now and this vineyard is known for its exceptional elevation, it boasts unique growing conditions that imbue their wines with distinct characteristics. In this lively conversation, Woody shares the intricacies of growing grapes in such a remarkable setting, offering listeners an inside look at the challenges and triumphs of Welsh viticulture. Get ready for a fascinating journey into the world of Welsh winemaking and discover what makes Montgomery Vineyard a standout in the UK wine scene. Tune in and enjoy!

Here are links to places mentioned:

Montgomery Vineyard

Penmaenuchaf Hall Hotel

Fanny Talbot

Gwen

Ynyshir

Dropyn – Gwin Dylanwad Wine Chat is recorded in our little wine shop in Dolgellau, North Wales. Join Dylan, Llinos and Osian as we chat about wines, winemakers and the stories behind the bottles.

🍷 Visit us at https://dylanwad.co.uk/ 

💬 We’d love your feedback and reviews to help us grow.  Diolch!

Transcript

Osian 0:11

Recording. Okay. Welcome, Kroiser, Drop in Queen Delamwad wine chat. This is episode nine. Where this is episode nine, and we've got a special guest in today. We have Woody from Montgomery Vineyard. Welcome, Woody.

Dylan 0:34

We are very honoured. You know, we've had a few couple of winemakers on, but this is our local man, our local vineyard, the nearest to us quality vineyard. And it's an absolute delight to have you in in the room, Woody. Thanks for coming over.

Woody 0:51

Well, thank you very much, Dylan. Thanks so much for having me today. I really look forward to today. And um, yeah, I'd just love to tell you a little bit about the vineyard, the type of wines that we uh we make, and um yeah, just generally educate everyone on Welsh wine as well.

Dylan 1:04

That's it, and Welsh wine, you know. I mean, for people listening beyond the border, you know, so this is about Welsh wine. This is a Welsh winery, it's quite close to the border. But uh yeah, tell it give us a history. You know, when did you start, Woody, and and a little bit where it is, what's it look like, you know, what's the slope, what's the the stuff that you got there?

Speaker 1:24

Well, it's quite close to the English-Welsh border, as you q mentioned there. So Montgomery is probably about three or four miles from um uh English-Welsh border. Shrewsbury is kind of the closest main town, um, which is in Mid Wales, which is in Paris. Um the vineyard itself, uh, so my mum and dad back in the 60s and 70s, they bought the uh it's a small holding, you know. So we've got about 10 acres altogether, and we've got five acres which are under vine. But they uh bought that back in uh back in the days and they used to travel up and it was a bit of a bit of a break, a bit of a holiday place, and they go just as a getaway because it's a beautiful, beautiful spot. And I mean it's quite quite notable height as well. It's right up in the in the in the hills, you know. So we're a thousand feet, well just under a thousand feet above sea level, which is one of the highest in the UK, yeah. Yeah, it's you know, probably one of the highest uh commercial producing vineyards in the UK, yeah. And um, you know, thank God we can produce beautiful wine, and it was certainly a bit of a risk on the risk uh chart when we first started. But you know, where the vineyard actually is, the five acres that we've got, we've got south facing slopes, which are beautiful, you know. Um and because you've got that height as well, you're in the valleys which kind of you can see north, south, east, and west, but it's also almost in like a natural amphitheatre. Definitely, definitely. Yeah, so you've got the south facing slopes, which we want the vines lined up to get that full day sun from you know, going from east and west. Um, and luckily enough, you know, that that we've managed to manage to get that as well. Um, what else should I say? We've got about, I don't know, it's probably from 21 to 38 degrees on some of the slopes that we've got. So we've got natural drainage in there as well. I'll probably go a little bit technical as well. So I'll tell you geology. I mean, you know, this is the time to do it.

Dylan 3:04

When you're gonna set up a vineyard, you've got to think of those things. You know, you've got to look at the slope, you've got to look at the soil, you've got to, you know, where's the wind coming from and all that sort of stuff. And that's what you've done. Sorry, how long ago? So 15 years ago nearly.

Speaker 3:18

Yeah, we started, well, I say we started back in 2010, but that was part of you need to form the infrastructure, the roads, you know, making sure the fencing's there, making sure you've almost got the cover from the wind, you know, and and that was planting of trees, you know, hundreds and hundreds of trees we put around the boundaries. We've got old um trees which are up there, 150-year-old oaks, you know. So you've kind of got that original features, plus we've also put screens up as well, because you want to try to get the best that you can. And we all know that the weather can be a huge um factor in growing good quality grapes. So we wanted to get the best um the best site we could, yeah, and and you know, kind of minimize any risks that were around that. Um, like I say, the geology part of it, sorry, we started back in 2010. Yeah, we planted 2012, 13, and 14 um as as we kind of went through. Um, our first vintage was in 2016, um, where we we only made a thousand bottles and it was just I was in tears. I remember the winery with the winemaker. Uh, because you put so much effort and work in for that that duration, with you know, you won't see any any kind of um any wine for for quite a few years, you know.

Dylan 4:28

I think people probably don't appreciate what a long haul it is. So you you there you are, you've had the idea, we're gonna plan a vineyard, we do all the prep work, we've looked at the soils, and oh, four years, five years down the line, blood smooth tears, you get your first chance to taste what it's gonna be like, you know. I mean, very exciting, but that's a long time to wait. At least we get Christmas every year, don't we? You know, five years to get your next Christmas is a long time. It is.

Speaker 4:58

It was 2016, and it was the Solaris, which is our white wine. Yeah, and I remember tasting the the first bottle, and it did bring a tear to my eyes. It really did. Because and you're quite right, you know, that that huge amount of time, investment, and effort. And if I'm honest, you don't know whether it's going to work because it yes, it's diversification, but there's not a huge amount of what well, back when we started, um, comparison, you know, of what people were doing because it was it was quite an early vineyard, you know, in in in Wales to start. Yeah, the varieties we chose as well, um, they were new varieties at the time, which were coming through their pee-wee varieties, but but you know, you know, thank God and touch wood, we we chose the right varieties for the site, you know, and that was that wasn't just a little bit of luck, that was a lot of research, that was a lot of reading, and that was understanding, like we mentioned before about the geology of the site. Um, so like I say, we we chose Solaris, which is what we produce for our white wines, Savo Blanc, which we use for our base sparkling as well, Pinot Noir Precoce, which is an early ripening Pinot Noir, um, and then we did Rondo, which is for our red grape varieties. We had Bacchus in as well. Uh, it didn't do so well. I think it's probably because of the altitude, but the rest have just absolutely thrived. And I think probably what you'll see now is a lot of new vineyards because it's almost tried and tested. I wish we'd got that comparison back then. Yeah. But those are the varieties I think that seem to thrive in the climates we've got. And look, we choose that based on you know the right rootstock, you know, the right types, and also on the you know, the the way the viticulture and viniculture is going to work in Wales.

Dylan 6:32

You know, that's going back to when you started, so I don't know, would there have been 20 vineyards in Wales? And like you say, now it's it's a bit easier 15 years down the road for people to try your wine, try wine from other vineyards across Wales. There's now maybe 50 commercial vineyards in Wales. I mean, just for people listening outside Wales, you know, there's a thousand vineyards in England, 50 in Wales, but that's come from nowhere. Uh, but these new varieties are working so well. But you were blazing the trail, you've tested them for other people to see wow, Solaris works really well in our climate, if it's controlled.

Speaker 7:11

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah. No, thanks very much. Uh like I say, it was just thank God it worked. That's all I really, you know, because it's diversification, it's still still agricultural side of things, you know. Um, but to put that amount of effort, and if I'm honest, I didn't realise to actually run a vineyard, uh, get the wine made to that level and perform year on year to get that level of quality, it really does take a lot of hard work, and I'm sure any vineyard owners will will agree with me here as well. But year on year, you still need that effort and you still need to keep improving. Because, like I say, what we want to do is you know, the ethos and the vision behind it was every great matters, which it really does, you know. Um, and working at a thousand feet, you know. Um that that all of those factors are things that we needed to make sure we got it right and we continue to get it right as well, and improve on that quality year on year. Um, and you know, hopefully, you know, gentlemen, I think we've done uh quite well on that so far.

Dylan 8:06

We've done a great job, but uh you know Oshan has been uh you've been around a few more Welsh vineyards than I have, really.

Osian 8:12

Yeah, and I I just want to go back to the the geology aspect. So what you know, we've just been to France, um northern France, the Loire, and it's all you know, they're they're so passionate about different plots and different soils. You know, we went to um Domain Augero and they had a plot in Bon Bon Blanche, Bon Blanche for the sweet wines, and then you could see over the hill they had another patch, which is so I can't remember what the soil was in Bon Blanche.

Dylan 8:44

Was it clay clay uh calcareous stuff there? But you're looking across the Cote de Leon, yeah, and the other side is a is a is a volcanic fault, yeah, and so the soil's completely different there, and they're doing different things on that side. So they've got you know, obviously they've got a bigger patch to control and different grape varieties in different places to make different styles of wine.

Osian 9:09

So I just want to ask, you know, what so basically the first question is what is the soil? What like what is it? The majority made up of sure, yeah.

Speaker 9:17

So you're gonna get an engineering geotech. Sorry, my background is engineering geology and geotechnical engineering. So uh and you know what? When we got the site, I say when we got the site, when you want to run a successful site, you need to have the right aspects, as we said, which is north-south, and that's more for the sunshine. You know, we've got the weather conditions, you know, from the winds and the rains and things, you still need to protect that site as well. So when I mentioned the amphitheatre, it's almost drawn back into the hillside. So we're almost out of those winds, you know, they kind of go past the valleys. The valley part of it would have been, you know, we've had the ice ages, we've had the glaciers, and like I say, where we are in Dorgeth Lai, we're the deposits which have been left over the years. But all of that, the rivers and the alluval deposits were then forced up into you know the hillsides, and then you've got compaction over the years. Yeah. So you've got a spread of, say, the first, you know, say zero, start at zero, which would be grass level down to maybe 300 to 450. You've got a topsoil and a subsoil, yeah, which is kind of what you're going to get in most of the fields, etc. Then we're starting to go down into layered mudstone, which would have been those alluvial deposits, which are high in mineral that will mineral-rich materials, you know. So that's into your kind of clays and then the mudstone, which is compacted down, which we call locally as a rotch. So that's almost like a um a soft stone, but that's where the vines will put send their taproots down. So you're around about one point one a meter to one point two meters, where you start to hit that that kind of bedrock, and that's where we start to get the minerality that comes up, and that's where the nutrients are going to be coming from the vines as they spread through.

Speaker 4 10:48

Yeah.

Speaker 10:48

Because originally, I mean, I I I can't remember the actual date where the settlement was, where the my mum and had a book house and uh the vineyard is now, that had been farmed, you know, for years and years and years, and there was an old cottage there. So it just shows that you know, people didn't have you know geological maps back then, people didn't understand, you know, um the testing of soils and nutrition values, etc. back there. But they knew that those specific locations out of the wind, you know, up into the hills, you know, either for that agricultural side back then, they knew that those areas were going to be productive, but they needed that productivity to be actually be able to live and survive, to be able to eat their meats and veg and things like this, you know. Um when there weren't supermarkets and things like that, you know. So it goes all the way back there. But the geology, as we said there, that that's one part of it. So the site selection is really important for anybody who's gonna start their own vineyards. That's definitely something to get right, yeah. Um, and like I say, so that worked out perfect. Then we do the chemical analysis and the nutrient analysis of the soil. That then helps us then to select the right root stocks that they're gonna thrive in that type of geology. So we work off an SO4 rootstock, which then it's a rootstock that is suitable for vigorous growth, which then gives us um a good deep root structure, but also gives us vigorous uh growth, which means that we get like a larger leaves, we get larger uh canopy, which again we then have um for the photosynthesis. Yeah, yeah, because those larger, larger leaves that we get there, that sucks all of that goodness and energy in to then go into the grapes and we grow them for those. Um a little bit into the kind of the more viticulture side, we grow on a uh a double Goyo system.

Dylan 12:29

Yeah, which is this is the training system how the vines grow at it and are held up to expose the leaves and then the grapes to the sunshine, keep them upright.

Speaker 12:41

Yeah, so we use a double Goyo system that works for us because we want to get the vines up, I say as high as we can, they're usually about say 1.5 to 1.8 high, and then the row spacings are seven foot six in between. And the reason why it's so specific, they're 1.2 metres apart for the plants, is because as we get that sunshine, you get the shade. So as it's going east, west and north-south, in the morning, you don't want to be shading the other rows, but the specific height you still need to have for a number of uh leaves to be able to actually get that photosynthesis in the canopy, you know.

Dylan 13:14

So you you all thought it was easy out there, you know. There's a sorry about sorry, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, no, this is the detail. It is the detail, yeah. But we uh you know, we drink wine, we taste wine from all over the world, and we don't often get into this sort of detail, but it for us it's fascinating, you know, that's what makes a difference. And if you haven't quite thought it through when you planted 15 years ago and you thought, well, we'll cram some extra vines in there, that'll be all right, you know, we won't let them grow up so much or whatever, but you've had to think that all through to get to the point where you can get the best grapes from your patch of land there uh in Montgomery. So that's yeah, that's great.

Osian 13:54

And because they're so steep, you're obviously not going to have a tractor there harvesting the grapes.

Speaker 14:00

No, unfortunately not. Uh I mean I wish we had, you know, because we literally it's handpicked, you know, and hand-tended as well. We do use machinery now as we've developed the vineyard over years, right? And that's more of a time-saving and consistent approach to the to the actual growing of the canopy. And that just gives me extra time to do it exactly when we need to do it. You know, we don't need to do a thousand acres, we're only doing five acres. But that precision machinery side of things, it's done on the day when it needs to be done, when the sun shines out, you know, and that that you know, that really has given us a good edge on things, and I think that has improved the quality over the past few years just because of the timing of each of the because the growth doesn't stop. You know, they don't just stop for a day, oh it's raining today. Waits for no man, that waits for no man, and the vines continue going, you know. Um, but yeah, what was the question again? You're talking about about the the harvesting, the grape harvesting. I know over in over in England a lot of people are starting to use the harvesters. That's more because um when the grapes are depicted, once they've hit those, you know, on a basic level, the sugars and acidity level, they need to come in, yeah. If you've got 50, 100 acres. Yeah, it's a different scale. It's a different scale, but we handpick, yeah, and also um we hand pick at the time that needs to come in. And like I say, don't get me wrong, it's a huge amount of work because you're talking tons and tons and tons of grapes. But once the the biology and the chemical side of things adds up for me, that's when we go out, we get it, we literally do pick handpick it and it's straight in, and and it's I'd probably say within an hour and a half it's that the wine is being you know crushed and ready to go. Yeah, ready to go. How fast it is, yeah. But I think again, to get that quality, again, I I think those little little wins, and anybody who plays sport, you know, inches and millimeters, you know, I think that's the difference that you try to improve on year on year. Yeah, and we are acutely aware that to get that quality and to you know to get in some of the I mean some of the famous places that you know, even we all deal with, you know, restaurants, missionary style restaurants, they demand that quality. Yeah, and you know, when we're dealing with some of the top smellers, you know, in the world and in this country as well, they know the difference. You know, they know a good quality wine, they know what they're looking for, and then of course their clients do as well, you know. Yeah, and and I think we're acutely aware of that that that that quality needs to be consistent to keep the standards up, yeah.

Dylan 16:24

Yeah, so we had we better try something, yeah, yeah. Um so first up, that wasn't too bad. No, such a good sound, such a good sound, such a good sound. So we've got um Montgomery Vineyard, Savo Blanc, traditional method, yeah, tradition sparkling wine. Yeah, so there's a sparkling wine made in the same technique as champagne, but the great variety is Savo Blanc, which is a very popular variety in the UK for making sparkling wines, isn't it? So I mean that's what you planted it for to make this sort of wine. So um I'll just allow ourselves to have a little taster. There you go, and over to Osh. Thank you. There we go. Thank you very much, Dill.

Speaker 17:12

Yeah. So yeah, Savoy Blanc, this is our 2022. Uh we've got our new 2023 being released soon. Um what should I say about the the Savo Blanc?

Dylan 17:23

It's it's that sort of base, you know, makes that base wine like champagne. Uh we went to a tasting a few years ago with a very nice posh French man who uh described the base wine. So you make your first fermentation, base wine, a little bit like battery acid. You would not want to drink it, and then it's aged in bottle, second fermentation in bottle, which is where the magic turns it into a beautiful sparkling wine. Persistent mousse, good aroma, little touch of that sort of bready brioche yeastiness on the on the nose that comes from that aging on the leaves. How long on the leaves? 18 months, something like that. Yeah, you know, that develop that that aroma, that flavour there, and and and the mousse, the fine mousse, sort of softens the bubbles. It's not like you know, Coca-Cola, your sort of worst sparkling wine, which is like a little bit like Coca-Cola, because they've just actually put CO2 into the bottle to fizz it up. But this is this is a quality sparkling wine. Thank you very much.

Speaker 18:27

And do you know what? Uh the 22, it's tasting lovely, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it really has nicely rounded off as well. And you still get those lovely kind of you know, the pear and the apple, you know, that those notes that come through as well, which is you know, predominantly the the variety of um Savo Blanc. And like I say, as a sparkling wine, I think good as down lovely, very easy drinking as well. And I know that we've we've sold to different people around the country, but they just love that in the restaurant, yeah.

Dylan 18:53

Yeah, so no, no, it's a great job, you know. And obviously, we've we've been buying that over a number of years now. And and as you I think, yeah, the well, 2018 was really good, but the quality keeps getting better, I I feel, you know, which is great. Um so but you need a range, so shall we move on? It's it's it's interesting for us to see, you know. I think maybe people think I mean the UK as a whole makes a lot of sparkling wine, not so much still wine, but people are making more and more still wines now. Next up, we've got this Solaris you've talked of. So this is a um uh what did you call it? Pee-wee variety or which is yeah, they've been crossed. They have, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 19:36

So originally the Solaris would have come from a um uh a Riesling style Germanic hybrid. Yeah, really good growing in cool climate conditions. So the Solaris we've got there is a 2023, and like I say, it grows really well for us on the actual vineyard itself, really good, um, really good growth on the SO4 root stock that we use as well. Nice, and you know what? It just seems to really thrive, it works well in the vineyard. We get good ripenesses and good uh good ripeness and good acidity, sugar levels or whatever. Good sugar levels, yeah. And that's what we want from a really good quality wine. Um, should we have a little taste?

Dylan 20:10

Yeah, so in a in a way it's a little bit, you know, it's quite grassy, it's quite fresh. It's a you know, if if you've got to compare it with something more Sauvignon than something else, you know, but lovely, refreshing acidity. Uh, but like you say, apples and pears, nice fruit, and it can't carries through, it doesn't drop just uh drop away. Um yeah, you've got that little bit of grapefruit in there as well. So just that slightly sweetness in as well. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, there's a touch of sweetness, so sugar levels are that's six, six, yeah.

Speaker 20:42

Yeah, okay. Um like I said, what we need to do is just it needs to have that continuity so it doesn't just drop off, as you quite rightly mentioned there. You've still got the you know, the acidity that comes through towards the end, which is great to go with food pairings as well. But what we wanted to do, and and probably this is for all of our wines, is to make a wine that is is is drinkable, you know, as in easy drinking. You think, you know, I'd love to have another glass of this, I would have a bottle of that. And I think that's what we we tried to do. It's approachable, you they're always fresh, they're always seem really, you know, it's I mean, acidity is not a problem for us, isn't it? No, no, no. But you need that acidity, you need that acidity, but also to back up with those floral notes, and then you can actually taste that grape variety, yeah, um, you know, in its best form in the wine. And I I feel you know, that's what we look to achieve every year, you know. Yeah, and uh I thoroughly enjoy drinking them and hopefully everybody else does as well.

Dylan 21:30

I think Solaris is for us in the shop, you know, it's it's it's a nice one to get behind because you can say a bit like a Sauvignon, if you like Sauvignon, you know, try this one. Uh and it it's just working really well in Wales, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, uh, I don't know how much there is in England, but England we're a bit ahead of the game. But we've just found a variety in Wales that works really well with the climate, and it's beautiful. That you know, I think we'll move on, you know.

Speaker 21:56

Let's try the next, we've got the rosa, yeah? So the 23 Rose, so that is a blend of 85% Solaris, which we've just tried before, and it's got 15% Pinot Noir Precoce. Yeah. Now Pinot Noir Precoce is an early writing of Pinot Noir, which suits a cool climate grape variety. And that gives us probably a couple of weeks of extended earlier growing season, which means we're not into any kind of frosts because of the weather. So again, I talked about risk at the early stages about when you're setting up the vineyard. Those times and because of the weather, you're trying to just minimize that risk. And two weeks doesn't sound like very much, but two weeks in a in a challenging growing uh growing season, or if we've had a really good season, you get the kind of that that minimizes the the risk of you know not getting that that great variety to its full you know full extent. And like I say, touch with year on year that's performed really well for us. And well, should we ever try the rosic?

Dylan 22:55

Yeah, so lovely, you know. I don't know. If you did it blindfold, would you say there's a you know a hint of red fruit, but it's got a touch of sweetness, it's still got that acidity running through. And I I I you know what I'm picking up on all the wines in a way, which is not is what you might expect from the UK, but light in alcohol, you know, which is lovely. We've got a few, we've got one Spanish producer now, and we buy three reds from Campo de Boja uh in northern Spain, just down from Rioja, but we've got three reds that are 15%, 15%, 16%. These are 11. I think they're all about 11. Yeah, they're between 11 and a half to 12, yeah. That's the range. And again, that drinkability. Yes, it's not gonna knock your head off. It's lovely, refreshing. Yeah. Uh I mean, particularly the rose is something you could just drink on it, you know, on its own. We we're looking out at uh Cadaradris, the mountain here. I can't say the sun is out, but if the sun was out, we could be sat out front. The bottle would be empty, yeah. Go through the bank. Which is which is which is great, you know. Uh going back to those sort of timings, and one of the things I've picked up from you when I've been over is uh the thing about frost, and you know, I'm not a farmer, I'm not a whatever, but you know, you're as you've said, you know, you're quite high up, but actually a little bit the the frost danger is not so high. I hadn't clocked this thing that yeah the frost runs down the hillside, yeah, sort of through your vineyard and will settle in the bottom of the valley. So yeah, which is great, you know, as again this little little microclimate that you found there that you know I'm sure you've had a bit of frost from time to time, but you've sort of mitigated where you are as mitigated the risk of a frost, which can be devastating. You can our uh Shabley produce uh um 2021 that late frost there. Uh 7th, 8th, 9th of April, they lost three quarters of their crop. Bang. You know, so it's a it's a real danger. It can be fine, you know, as we go forward with climate uh climate change, whatever we're gonna call it, possibly say that word. Yeah, yeah. But it's not gonna get uh it's not gonna get any easier, maybe, is it? You know, it's the these crucial timings when bud burst and flowering and when you want to get the harvest in, if things are thrown out at those parts of the year, then uh yeah.

Osian 25:20

But yeah, we're we're recording in early well early March. So what are the vines doing right now? Are they when do they start to bud? I've forgotten.

Speaker 25:30

No, no, no, it's it's but it's it's quite right. It's different. If it's different in this country, it's different part of the regions as well. So probably the further south that you go, uh with the sunshine, the temperatures we've had this growing season, you know. I think we're talking 18 degrees, I think, some down in the south. I think we've been quite close to that as well. Yeah. Yeah. So so it'll there'll be different parts throughout the country. So, you know, if you're in the further south and into the mid and up to the north, there's slightly you know different uh growing times. But at the moment, we've just uh we've just finished all of our pruning. Yeah, um, so we prune during the dormant phase of the growth of the vine, which then means when it starts to come into the main growing season or the start of the growing season. We're probably talking mid-March to April, and then what we'll start to have is bud burst, which is where the buds will come out almost like a woolly kind of cotton wool kind of uh small um small bud that comes out. Um and then what we do is is just before that we start to lay the canes down. So once we've done the pruning, we take off the best um uh the best parts of the vine ready to lay down, which is what we call that as a part of the trellis system. We lay each of those down, one left and one right, and that what that gives us that usually gives us between say seven to seven to eight or nine different buds on each of the um uh the lay down canes, and then what we do is on a double goie system, those canes then produce the verticals which then grow up, which then gives us the grapes at uh our fruiting fruiting wire level. Um and uh that's interesting.

Dylan 26:54

At the moment you've got no buds as well. They're just starting to come through, yeah. You know, having like we say, we've been in on the Loire starter this week, and they've got buds coming out now, you know. But that is the danger because they may still be getting frosts, you know. And actually uh Emmanuel at Domain Ojereau, you know, he's leaving a long cane, two long canes, uh, on his vines because uh the you always learn something new, you know, and it's like the buds at the very end, yeah the plant is trying to force the energy to them. That's it. They were the ones who were just starting to form at the top of that cane, and he will have to come back and cut again once he thinks that frost chance has gone. But yeah, so it's a nervy tie, you know, it's a long nervy time. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 27:42

We do something similar, um, you know, so we'll prune them up. We actually, once we've uh pruned, we actually tie the verticals, yeah. Um, which so we tie the canes up, so we try to keep them as high as possible off the ground, and so we pin them to what we what we call like a trellis system, which is the wires that you probably see in the vineyards elsewhere. We tie those up just to keep them up as high as possible because you can either get the ground frosts, yeah, you can get the air frosts which come through, which you were talking about before. And like I say, just to mitigate those, you're talking 30 centimetres, 60 centimetres to 1.2 meters, that difference can, as you quite rightly said, wipe out a crop, or you know, um you could survive that, you know. Save the crop, save the crop, yeah.

Dylan 28:23

But that's a extra extra work, extra effort, yeah.

Speaker 28:26

You know, you've got to go back through to tie them on again. But it's like we said there, that is you you need to do things like that to be able to get that production of crop, um, and it's you know, making sure you're looking after your you know you know the vines, the viticulture side of things, you know, and I think that's it's just good good practice as well, isn't it?

Dylan 28:42

Yeah, yeah, great. Yeah, so uh we'll move on to to the last wine we got at the rondo ready to go. Ah, brilliant. We have the red, yeah.

Speaker 28:54

So rondo. Yeah, beautiful great variety. So it's a lovely deep colour. I know you can't see this, but uh from me talking, it's a lovely deep colour. It's a 2023, um, and this is we predominantly use this for our red wines. Um this has got a little bit of oak in as well. So yeah, there's a light touch of that. We use a French oak, yeah, and that's oak staves that we use. Yeah, and what is that?

Dylan 29:17

It just very honest, not uh if you like, you know, people get hung up on oak barrels and stuff like that. But actually, there's times when oak staves can give the effect you want. Yes, yeah, right.

Speaker 29:33

So it's it's as opposed to actually using barrels, the oak staves, if you imagine cutting the barrel into pieces, yeah, yeah. Yeah, literally put it into pieces, and those those pieces go actually into the vats themselves. Now, what this does is you can For me, once you put it into the barrel, you're kind of on a time scale dependent on how the barrel's going to produce what you want and how quickly that's going to be done. With the stays, because we wanted to get the consistency with the red wine, we're then able to add takeaway and time. Yeah. So we get that consistent across you know the thousands of thousands of bottles that we've done. You taste and taste. We taste and taste until we're happy with the hint I want to do. Because you sometimes you you won't be able to control that. Once it's in a barrel, it's in, yeah, you know, whereas you you unless you're taking it out, maybe at the right stage, wrong stage, or you're happy with it. Yeah, that you're kind of quite dependent on that barrel plus different multiples barrels. Whereas with the stays, we've we've got more control of what we can do, and I like that. Yeah, you know, um, maybe that's because of the style of wines we want to make. Yeah, I think that's but I can't take away from the the barrels that you you know you can get a premium wine from that, yeah. But I think that just works for what we need it to do.

Dylan 30:43

Yeah, and you're making, you know, these are I mean, people might be surprised how much red we have, you know, because I think we think mostly sparkling, and then we go white and not so much red. Um so it it they're lighter reds, yeah. Uh, and you've got to be very careful with you there. So that I can see how that gives you the the extra control.

Osian 31:04

It's so fruity, and it's but then you get that hint of smokiness and spice, and it's it's just a touch, isn't it?

Speaker 31:10

And it's that delicate touch, which as you go through the flavour profile of of your taste, it was that what I just want that little bit of smokiness, that little bit of spiciness, it just tails it off, you know, yeah, and just keeps going, you know. And and I think that goes really well with with the foods and the food pairings as well, and and to drink it by itself as well.

Dylan 31:28

Again, it's uh yeah, 11, 11 and a half percent, 11%, nice and light. Yeah, I mean, if you a little bit, if you think Beaujolais or something like that, it's those sort of yeah, very light, light, fruity, yeah, yeah, but lovely, easy to drink. Yeah, if the sun would come out, we could have it on the terrace, but yeah, and that's lovely, but it it also goes with food, yeah, yeah. You know, that good streak of acidity across it is great. Uh, we were at Pemenicher earlier discussing uh wine pairings with the menu, and there was something with I think Dennis was saying foie gras and something like that, where you you know very, very great changing. And you want you know, this acidity to cut across. So yeah, I can see that working really well. Uh things like that. When he said uh the brown crab. Oh, brown crab that was sparkling was it. Yeah, yeah, the sparkling. You know, again, uh wine and food matching, that's a another another whole conversation. But but these uh opportunities for these wines that are maybe different from something that's coming from our more traditional uh wine suppliers, you know, whether it's France, Italy, or California, Chile, you know, these wines are are nice and fruity and light and give us a a different uh option to go with food.

Speaker 32:48

And it always, I mean, we're talking about the wine pairing, we're talking about I mean we we talk about Peminicha. That is a superb restaurant, and the level of food and quality that that they they put out for their clients in that restaurant, you know, and we're talking about food pairings, and like I said, when I first started the vineyard back in 2010, you could have only imagined that you'd be able to, you know, be in these these establishments around the country, you know, yeah, uh of you know Michelin star grade, you know. Yeah, um you know, with uh in a sea hall. And a seer hall, yeah. I mean, Michelin star restaurant, yeah. Yeah, and it's mind-blowing.

Osian 33:23

Yeah, it's funny that was that was my next question on like a personal level. Like, does it just feel weird? You know, you've you've started in 2010 and now you're selling wine to Michelin star restaurants, like it's it's it must be just bizarre. It is bizarre. To think of people who go to these restaurants, you know, they could be from all over the world, and then they'll see Montgomery, your wine, and they'll be drinking it, and I don't know. It blows my mind.

Dylan 33:53

Did you cheer and have a glass of Montgomery?

Speaker 33:56

Yeah, I don't know, but yeah, yeah. It blows my mind, and I I think probably the it makes me very proud, by the way. Very, very proud, even even to think that well, it it is happening, isn't it? You know, and we always wanted, you know, as a as a family in a vineyard and and from my own personal side, we always wanted to reach that that level, you know. Um, and that was always the vision to do this. But it it's crazy. And I'll get the little story would be my mum who looks after the the office side of things as well, and bless her heart, she she can have a phone call from I don't know, uh BT or something like that, you know, just updating on uh on a new broadband package. The second phone call, but we from a three Michelin star restaurant in London sketch, you know, and she'll be having a conversation with the Smellier who's world-renowned, you know, in a world-renowned restaurant. And that just blows my mind. And it just it does make me smile. We we do have a good laugh within the family as well. But do you know what? The wines hold their own there, yeah, yeah. And that's people calling us, you know, to be able to do that. So it's just great to have the reputation or or to continue in trying to get that reputation of doing really good quality wines, you know, and out in in in the world of that level of quality, you know.

Osian 35:05

Yeah, and I feel like the Welsh wine industry is still you know up and coming. Customers come in and they're from all over the place, and they're like, Whoa, Welsh wine. And the best red as well. Yeah, you grow Pinot Noir, and they're just they they gob smack. Yeah, and then uh I tell them roughly how many vineyards are in Wales, and they're just yeah, yeah. No, it's we can all be proud of it.

Dylan 35:29

Oh, yeah, you know, yeah, and and um yeah, today we've we've we've had a great day today. We've been to Fanny Torbit in Bartmouth as well, had great food there. Um, the quality of the food is here in Wales, the quality of the wine is here, and we can put them together and we can give an experience to people that's a little bit unique as well. Those wines are a bit different to what they may have somewhere else, and some of the food will be a bit different, and the ingredients that are local ingredients that go into that food. Uh, for us, we're you know, it it's fantastic for Wales that we can finally sort of stand up and show off a bit and say, no, no, we have world-class stuff here, you know. So come to Wales if you're if you're listening in America. Absolutely not well.

Speaker 36:12

Come and join us. Yeah, and I think going back to your question before, it is mind-blowing. Yeah, but but that's what we wanted to get to. And I still don't think we've completely done it, and we will continue to you know, try our best to just improve those. Yes, I said about the sport analogy before, those little bits of improvements and what we can do here, and just those because we do test a few different wines out as well. We blend different things, which people have probably never done before. We've done sparkling reds from wells in a demisexile, we do demisex, we do all yeah, delicious uh Pinot Rondo blend.

Dylan 36:42

Yeah, we did. I mean, yeah, that was a small quantity, but they were superb, yeah, gone straight away. Yeah, it was and and that's great as well, isn't it? You know, and that builds uh builds the pent-up demand that we'll we'll try those wines the next time, you know. No, brilliant.

Osian 36:56

Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, so what do you think the future looks like for Montgomery Vineyard? Are you gonna plant more vines or are you gonna just let them grow old and um in a good way, improved terms? Graciously, you know. Um are you gonna buy more plots or are you gonna I don't know?

Speaker 37:17

Oh, he's digging for the paper. You can tell us. I will, I will. Well, I think over time when I first started this, it was it's a huge investment to which I didn't realise at the time, to get it right. And I think that was predominantly what I focused on to start off with, yeah. And I think now that we're in the territory of consistent wines over a number of years that are that are you know not only not only quality from my side of things, it's also reinforced by like you've just mentioned, you know, where we've been today. I mean, those that's a high grade of you know, Smelliers and the restaurants that we're talking about. So I think we've arrived there at the quality, but that still needs to keep going. I think from the vineyard management side as well, uh like I say, behind the scenes, there's a huge amount of work that goes into that that five-acre plot. And to repeat that again, I think, is even more hard work again. Yeah, of course it would be, but yes, I think we could probably triple in size, if I'm honest with you, and probably still keep well, probably not be able to meet the demand that comes through. Yeah. I mean, it's a funny thing, isn't it? It's really easy.

Dylan 38:21

And now it's it's self-perpetuating. The wine quality gets better, gets more interesting, and then the demand grows, which is it which is wonderful. You know, obviously there's new vineyards coming as well, but you know, you guys that got in there a bit earlier uh uh are in the right place to uh survive and grow and and prosper, hopefully.

Speaker 38:40

Yeah. So I think I think to answer your question, yeah, we would love to grow. Uh we just want to get it right where we are at the moment. I think we're we're pretty much there, and then what we can do is then we can repeat that. But you still need to have those south-facing slopes, we need still to go through the geology side of things as well, and then choose the right root stocks that we're going to go through. And I think that's a challenging part as well. But yes, we would love to expand. And and I think, as we've said before, we have to allocate the wines because there's people will call up. That's probably the worst part.

Dylan 39:07

Sounds like when we had the restaurant and we were allowed 18 bottles of Cloudy Bay because that was our allocation, you know.

Speaker 39:14

Luckily, we we get a little bit more Montgomery these days, but uh yeah, but it's you know, and who would have ever thought, you know, at the very beginning when we first started, I remember the like I said in 2016, the thousand bottles. I was thinking, oh my god, how are we gonna better sell these? And now, like I say, you know, it's the worst conversation I have to have apologizing because we've sold out, yeah. You know, um great position for us, but it just goes to show that hopefully touch wood, you know, we're still doing the right job for people. Yeah, great, great job done.

Dylan 39:43

Well, I think we've rambled on enough to yeah, it's been absolutely fantastic to have, you know, from the horse's mouth. Sorry, Woody, but you know, somebody that's on on the too many analogies, or on the rock face or in the coal mine or whatever it is, but you know, the person that's done the job has been through the pain, has has got it into a good place to produce some great wine in Wales. So thanks, Woody.

Speaker 40:10

Yeah, yeah. Thanks very much for having us as well.

Dylan 40:12

Both of you thoroughly enjoyed it. And we'll talk again. Catch us in the new episode. I don't know what we're gonna talk, we're talking about, but dropping out. Uh I was in Port Marion this week for the launch of their special Penderin whiskey and uh had a few conversations there. People that it's funny, isn't it? People are keen to do a bit of a podcast now. So maybe Steph from Poblado Coffee might like to do one. Coffee and and grapes and wine. Uh very, you know, the same uh geology, the same climate, altitude, variety, Ethiopia, wherever, and uh Rich from Penderren quite fancies a bit of a podcast. So who knows what we're talking about? So I mean thank you.